Energion Roundtable Week 10 Responses
This week’s Energion Roundtable question concerned education, and like last week there was considerable agreement among the responses from Arthur Sido, Bob Cornwall,, Joel Watts and myself.
But while there were large areas of agreement there were some key difference. One place I disagreed with Cornwall, was with his statement that, “It will take money, good teachers, parents who care about the future of their children, and young people who have a desire to learn and grow.”
Now at first blush it might seem that there is little to disagree with here. However I would argue that we already spend more than enough money and that there are plenty of good teachers and concerned parents. As for young people “who have a desire to learn and grow,” this strikes me as putting the cart before the horse. Young people are, well, children. It is part of the job of parents and teachers to instill this desire, and quite frankly, to push them when they would rather do other things.
One of the problems is that the system often gets in the way of teachers and parents. Just look at the waiting lists and lotteries for charter schools. We need to encourage such choice and opportunities. The flip side of this is that teachers unions often make it virtually impossible to get rid of bad teachers. What is really needed is not more money, but structural reforms that free up parent and good teachers, while removing the bad teachers.
Not too surprisingly, Sido and Watts were at opposite ends of the question on the role of the Federal Government. Sido wrote, “that there is no Constitutional role for the Federal government in compulsory public education.” Watts, on the other hand, wrote, “given the disparate needs of the country, the Federal Government is about the only way to ensure a decent educational system.”
Now I disagree with Watts that the Federal government is the only way. This is only true if you seek a system based on command and control. But if instead you have a system based on choice and competition, i.e., a bottom up approach, the role of Federal government is much less obvious. While this may not get to Sido’s goal of no Federal role, it would greatly limit any Federal role. This is because there is very little that can be done by the Federal government without stifling choice and competition.
Still, there is another issue here. The problem with many failing schools is often not so much the schools themselves, but rather the schools are just a sign of a much greater cultural problem. Failing schools are a symptom of failing neighborhoods, which is itself a symptom of the breakdown of the family. It is just a truism that what you subsidize you get more of, and what you tax you get less of. Yet in a grand social experiment government has for 50 year tried to ignore this basic principle of economics, with sadly very predicable responses.
George Gilder, in fact, was one who did predict it in his books Men and Marriage (originally published in 1975 as Sexual Suicide) and his Wealth and Poverty, which sold over a million copies and has just been updated for the 21st century. Gilder summed up the attacks on the family from government as requiring a welfare state to take care of the women and children, and a police state to deal with boys growing up without solid male role models. This pretty close to what we find in many inner cities were such government programs have had the most effect. It may not be politically correct to say so, but the problem of failing schools will never be dealt with until we deal with the issue of failing families.
Energion Roundtable Week 10 Education
This week’s Energion Roundtable question with Bob Cornwall, Arthur Sido, Allan R. Bevere, Joel Watts, and myself is:
I’ve been asking questions that I thought would concern others. This week I’m answering a question that’s on my mind, and which I don’t think the candidates at any level have addressed enough. How can we go about improving the quality of education in this country?
This question may not relate to the presidential candidates as much if you believe the federal government should not play the primary role on this issue. But as I have mentioned before, I hope you will address other candidates in your area, including state and local ones. I think it is unfortunate that so little attention is paid to elections at the local level. Feel free to choose your ground for this discussion.
This is one of the few areas where I think Obama, at least early on, made some limited progress. But, ultimately he showed himself beholden to the teacher’s Unions, and as a result, his performance in this area is at best mixed.
The problems with education in American stems from two major problems. The failure of top down government control, and the power of the teachers unions that consistently put the welfare of teachers ahead of students.
The solution is clear: we need a bottom up approach that puts the needs of the children ahead of those of the teachers. This battle has recently been a major focus in my state of Wisconsin. The results are pretty clear and as a result of the reforms, many abuses have come to light.
For example, before the law, school districts were at times pretty much forced to purchase health insurance from the union’s trust. As a result of the new law they now have more choices, which at a time of otherwise rising health care costs, is saving school districts across the state millions of dollars, often “without changing any aspects of the coverage.”
The other problem is the failure of a top down approach that has taken choice away from parents and teachers and moved it progressively farther away, first to the state, and then the federal government. The solution is pretty clear: more choice and competition. It has already been proven to work where it has been permitted to be tried, dispelling the objections of the teacher’s union driven education establishment.
Simply promising to fix failing schools is not an option. (Those in doubt should see the documentary Waiting for Superman) We have been trying to fix these failing schools decades. It is simply immoral to ask yet another generation of children to have their futures crippled, when a proven solution is available. Again the purpose of public education is not to fix failing schools, it is to educate children. And yet for decade after decade we have sacrificed generation after generation on the altar of the teachers unions and big government solutions.
When it comes to higher education, we need to completely rethink the entire process. For a variety of reasons, largely, but not totally to do with government, we have gone through a process of degree inflation. As a result, a high school diploma has become basically worthless. Then we wonder why kids drop out.
We then tell kids that to get ahead they must go to college, get a very expensive degree, burdening themselves with massive debt in the process. This steady supply of government funded customers has then allowed colleges to raise tuitions at well above the rate of inflation. This is completely unnecessary.
As employers know, students who then graduate still require a lot of on the job training to really get them up to speed. In fact, there is no reason that the training needed for most entry level positions from accounting to programming, to business could not be provided in high school. This is particularly true of areas like computer programing. It is just a fact that many software engineers have no college education, and many who do hold degrees earned them in areas other than computer science.
While there would certainly be a place for colleges, moving primary job training back into high schools where possible, would not only save students thousands of dollars, it would also make it easier to address labor shortages in areas that are not normally associated with college, such as the “critical shortage of machinists.”
The bottom line is that a policy that promoted choice and competition, deemphasized teachers unions, and restored the value of a high school diploma in terms of getting a job would go a long way towards improving our education system, and more importantly the lives of the children that depend on it.
Energion Roundtable Week 9 Responses
This week’s Energion Roundtable question concerned informed voters, and given our differing points of view over the course of this roundtable, it is surprising how much agreement there was on this topic in the responses from Arthur Sido, Bob Cornwall,, Allan R. Bevere, Joel Watts and myself.
Here are a few comments. Cornwall wrote that, “Informed voting starts, in my mind, with having a good understanding of one’s own perspective on the world” I could not agree more. I would add that it is important to distinguish what is “fact” and what is perspective in one’s own view, and this is not always easy. I would argue that most disagreement here (and in most areas) do not occur at the level of “facts.” This is why neither side is extremely upset by the alleged falsehoods of their candidate. Their assumptions and their underlying philosophies are much more important.
This leads to a quibble I had with Sido. Again, I pretty much agreed but paused at his statement that, “The old saying ‘How do you know when a politician is lying to you? His lips are moving’ has never been more true”. While a common way to dismiss politicians, I do not think it is true, or at least that it is that simple.
In my classes, and in my book Preserving Democracy, I use the example of a news story on the effects of the Bush tax cuts on the middle class vs. the rich, which was based on a CB0 study. Democrats claimed the Bush tax cuts shifted the tax burden to the middle class, while Republicans claimed it shifted the tax burden to the rich. The reason I use this example is that despite the contradictory nature of these claims, both sides are correct.
Which conclusions you reach depends on a number of factors and assumptions. In this case, when we use terms like taxes, middle class, rich, fair, tax burden, etc., what do these term actually mean? Thus the CBO study supports both conclusions depending on how you understand these terms. But to get to the heart of the matter, requires much more analysis than most are willing to go into. It also goes to the heart of “fact checking” for which definitions and assumptions one make about a statement will often have a major impact on whether or not it is true. I would argue that this is not an isolated situation. As such, it might be a minority position, but I do not believe that politicians lie anywhere near as much as is commonly believed.)
An issue I had with Bevere and Sido, was their equating of Fox News with MSNBC. As Bevere, put it, “try to get campaign news from reputable and fair news sources. This excludes Fox News and MSNBC” Now I do not watch Fox News (like Sido I don’t have Cable or Satellite), but when I have seen it, I have seen far more liberals interviewed on Fox than I have seen conservatives interviewed on MSNBC.
More importantly, as I cite in my book, a study of the coverage of the last presidential election by the Pew Research Center’s Project for Excellence in Journalism, showed that the coverage among the major news sources was clearly slanted in favor the Democrats; and more so than was the case in 2004, where it also favored the Democrats. The study showed that there were twice as many positive stories than negative stories for Obama, while almost 60% of the stories for McCain were negative and only 14 positive. Yet, as I write in my book,
The only network to have anything resembling balanced coverage was Fox News. While often criticized by the left as favoring Republicans, Fox News was equally critical with 40 percent of the stories being negative for both candidates. As for the positive stories, 25 percent of the stories about Obama fell into this category, compared with a slightly lower 21 percent for McCain.
So is it that Fox News is really so right wing, or is it that it just appears to be more right wing when compared to the rest of the Media which is so far to the Left?
Watts mention a number of sources saying, “First, look at foreign news sources, such as BBC and Spiegel. Canada may even contribute as well.” Good advice, but I would add that just because they are foreign does not mean that they are not biased. These sources, while good to consult are often just as bias as MSNBC in their own way. So be sure to seek out foreign sources from both the left and right, or you will get a false sense of diversity.
Finally I would add one other suggestion to my list: Seek out and engage in discussions with those who disagree. This is by far the best way to clean up the problems in your own thinking. This will not be easy for it can be difficult to find those on the opposite side of the spectrum who are both willing and able to discuss. I take it as one of the weaknesses of this roundtable, that, apart from mine, there have been very few responses, to the initial posts. But I remain hopeful and there is still some time.
Energion Roundtable Week 9 Informed Voters
This week’s Energion Roundtable question with Bob Cornwall, Arthur Sido, Allan R. Bevere, Joel Watts, and myself is:
An informed electorate is important in sustaining a democracy. We’ve just completed a presidential and vice-presidential debate, and will see two more presidential debates. I’ve just read some factchecking from the vice-presidential debate which suggested that accuracy was a bit scarce. What specific recommendations would you make to individual voters as to how they can become informed voters? Feel free to list and/or link to resources.
This is a particularly difficult question to answer because, for the vast majority of informed voters, the debates are irrelevant. This is because informed voters tend to vote based on issues. They follow events and have developed political philosophies that, like all philosophies, help them make sense of the chaos that is the world.
Issue voters made their decisions long ago, and in a very real sense the debates are irrelevant, because for them the candidate is just the vehicle through which the policies they support will be advanced, and the policies they opposed will be blocked. While their candidate may lose a debate, it is hardly likely that an issue voter will switch to the opposing side, though it can discourage them enough so that they don’t bother to vote.
Thus the debates are important for the very population for whom fact checking is least important. They are not picking a candidate on the issues, so what they say about the issues is not all that important. This is especially true given the current structure of the debates, which focus on gaffs and one-liners, rather than actual serious discussion and debate.
This is what made the two debates so far, with Obama’s passivity and Biden’s antics, arguably the two worst debate performances in history of modern Presidential debates. It was not the substance, or lack thereof, nor the fact checking, but the performance itself; it is not what they said, it is what they did.
The other aspect that makes this so difficult to answer is that the question of truth is not an easy question in and of itself. While I definitely believe in absolute truth, I do not believe in our ability to always discern it, nor is it always black and white. Thus each claim to be fact checked has to be taken on a case by case, charge by charge, basis that hardly lends itself to a short post.
Frankly, I believe that some slack must be cut to both sides. No one can speak for 45 minutes in such a setting on a range of specific issues where the questions are unknown, and they are not allowed any notes, but must speak from memory, and not make some errors.
As for specific recommendations, here are several in no particular order.
* Start with the premise that both sides are just as _________ where the blank is any number of positive adjectives, such as just as smart; just as good; just as concerned, etc.. Individuals may fail in some respects but if this is not your starting point, you have biased any conclusion your reach.
* Listen/Read to both sides. This is easy for those on the right, for the views of the left dominate the culture and cannot be avoided. Views on the right are largely confined to Fox News, talk radio, and a small number of newspapers such as the Wall Street Journal, and thus must be sought. For example, conservative talk show host Dennis Prager gave a talk at Stanford in 2003 on The Pathology of Anti-Americanism and Anti-Zionism. The school newspaper paper cited students saying that they had not heard such views at Stanford. Thus it is no wonder that a study by Jonathan Haidt found that “conservatives understand liberals much better than liberals understand conservatives.”
Despite the claims of the left, not all of talk radio is hosts yelling at callers. Some recommendations in this area for serious thoughtful talk would be Dennis Prager and Hugh Hewitt, both of whom have a range of guests from both the left and the right.
* Avoid what Thomas Sowell calls Stage One Thinking. Many politicians think in term of problems and solutions, that is stage one thinking. Going beyond this takes into consideration the effects of any proposed solutions with such questions as: Will it actually work?
* In exchanges/debates pay more attention to the responses than the initial answers. Most politicians can lay out their positions; the real test is how they respond to the challenges by others.
* Note the difference between rejecting and attempting to refute. Do they just say that their opponent is wrong or do they give specific reasons and evidence to back up rejection?
* Along these lines, look for examples. Without a specific example, often it is not actually clear what a politician is talking about.
* Note who is seeking to persuade, and who is attempting to intimidate or silence opposition.
* Look for fallacies. Those who can use reason and evidence normally use it. Those who can’t, resort to fallacies, the biggest is ad hominem attack, i.e., attacking the person. Note, however, that there is a difference between attacking a person’s position and record, which is perfectly legitimate, and attacking them as a person.
While this will not make fact checking irrelevant, as what appears to be a substantive reply falls apart if it is based on false information, it will go a long ways towards helping decide who really has the better arguments.
In the end we get the politicians we deserve. If we demand from politician reasoned arguments, we will get them. There is a general derision of mudslinging but politicians use it in their campaigns because it works. Ultimately the problem is not with the politicians, but with the voters who vote them in.
Energion Roundtable Week 8 Responses
This week’s Energion Roundtable question concerned the courts and as usual there were a range of views in the responses from Arthur Sido, Bob Cornwall,, Allan R. Bevere, Joel Watts and myself.
As usual Sido and I pretty much agreed, and our biggest disagreement is that I spoke of original intent whereas he referred to “strict constitutionalist.” While legal scholars would find some difference between the terms, for the purposes here they are synonymous.
Cornwall did not really speak to the various philosophies and seem to focus more on preferring judges who would agree with his political views and opposing those who do not, which is a fairly common view and one of the problems with the politicization of the courts.
One of the examples of a bad decision cited by Cornwall was Citizen’s United, which is attacked on the left as much as Roe v. Wade is attacked on the Right; Sido, for example called Roe “a legal monstrosity.” But there is a huge difference in these rulings that goes to the heart of the way Judges reach their decisions.
At issue in Citizens United was whether or not a group, the Citizens United of the title, could distribute a movie about Hilary Clinton. The questioning during oral arguments showed that the statue covered far more than movies, and could even include books. Thus the problem was summed up by Justice Scalia as
“you are a lawyer advising somebody who is about to come out with a book and you say don’t worry, the FEC has never tried to send somebody to prison for this. This statute covers it, but don’t worry, the FEC has never done it. Is that going to comfort your client? I don’t think so.”
Thus at the heart of Citizen’s United was the first amendment and whether or not government could ban a movie, or even a book about a political candidate, something I would argue is pretty clearly covered in the First Amendment. One can argue about whether or not the First Amendments applies to people who organize themselves into a corporation, or if by organizing they lose their first amendment rights, but that the first amendment covers speech is not at issue.
Looking at Roe v. Wade the issue is far different. It is just a fact that the Constitution does not mention abortion. If the framers had wanted to include it they certainly could have. It is not as if abortion is some new technology like computers they could not have known about. But they did not include it. So Roe asks us to believe that either this right was in the constitution but had gone completely unnoticed for nearly 200 years, only to be discovered in 1973, or that the Court acts basically as a running constitutional convention able to change the constitution as it sees fit.
Bevere attacked the idea of strict Constructionism writing,
“Judges have judicial philosophies. It is impossible to come to any text in an objective and neutral way. Hence, I reject the idea that one can have what is referred to as a strict constructionist reading of the text.”
This strikes me as the perfect is the enemy of the good. He is probably correct that this cannot be determined in any perfect sense, but that is far different from rejecting the pursuit altogether.
Again if Judges are not going to make these decisions based on what it meant when passed as best as they can determine it, what are they going to make the decision on and on what basis can they change it? Bevere is not real clear on this point.
Finally, and surprisingly I agree with much of what Watts wrote, except that,
“Whether we like it or not, both sides have destroyed the sanctity of the separation of powers and the non-partisan court.”
While there is some truth to this, the two sides are hardly equal or the same. As I pointed out in my answer, those arguing for judges who will overturn Roe because it is not grounded in the Constitution are frequently confused with those arguing for overturning Roe, because they oppose abortion.
Thus I would argue that decisions like Roe and those who support them are the cause of the politicization. Rulings like Roe, grounded in the current majority of the Court rather than the text of the Constitution, inevitably make judges into policy makers. This puts them squarely into the political arena. They cannot use the excuse ‘We are just following the law,’ if they are the ones making the law.
Ultimately the core problem can be seen in Watts’ statement,
“The only litmus test needed for the Supreme Court is whether or not the would-be justice believes that he or she can effective rule in a constitutional manner, regardless of the issue.”
This sounds nice, but it begs the question of just what is “a constitutional manner?” Is the judge bound by the Constitution as written, passed and amended? Or is the Judge free to change the meaning of the Constitution in the process? That is the key question.
